That first part of the video is good because it shows Bush stonewalling the investigation and behaving in an evasive way. But the rest of the video is not really relevant. Bush supporters or people in the middle who aren't liberals aren't going to care about that sort of thing. They'll just think the liberals are at it again - making fun of the president, doing ad hominem. Liberals have done a poor job of bringing 9/11 truth to people.
Loose Change One turned me off the whole movement. I think I watched 10 minutes of it and then did something else with only one ear tuning in because 1) it was so boring and 2) there were some stupidities in it like no Boeing at the Pentagon 3) tone of Bush and fed bashing put me off. Loose Change video delayed the process of discovery for me because it was so badly made and full of lies (almost as much as it had truths if not even more). Now that I came to learn about 9/11 (it was through surfing Radio Islam and al Jazeera about Jewish spies), I think it's a bad video - so much emphasis on the collapse of the Twin Towers falling, most lay people don't understand the physics about towers falling at the speed of gravity or not --- and they don't have to to understand that 9/11 was a fraud - just show WTC 7 that wasn't hit by a plane falling - even a eight year old can understand the concept of why the building falling doesn't make sense. A video showing just that would have been a better one than the one they put out. I know they show that in their third video but still the damage has been done - Loose Change One turned away a lot of people from looking at 9/11 as a conspiracy and there are no second chances in this game. Once burned, twice shy. People aren't going to hear the truth when they have to swallow the message that 9/11 was done by Bush and his CIA cronies and that there was no Boeing plane at the Pentagon and that the people on that plane were taken off at some secret airfield and all that intelligence-insulting nonsense at the same time ...... if they want to read that kind of stuff "aliens kidnapped me and landed my airplane on a secret landing strip" they'll read National Enquirer.
The Loose Change people put so much cr@p in their video that the good stuff flew over people's heads and made some people resistant to listening to conspiracy theories forever. Why make a video at all if you're not going to do it properly or honestly?
Because most of the problem with Avery and co is that they weren't prepared to be completely honest about the 9/11 issue. They wanted to hide the role of the Israelis and blame everything on Bush and his fellow neocons. You can tell when something isn't genuine and when someone is trying to manipulate you. You put up a shield subconsciously and reject the whole message.
And the Loose Change people are still carrying on in the same fashion - they still pretend they don't know about the Mossad connection - about Odigo warnings, ICTS, Silverstein's connection to Netanyahu, about the cui bono factor, and how there was Mossad crawling around America before, during and after Sept 11. They don't mention how Mossad are the only people who could have logistically and logically carried this thing out without the whole world finding out unlike the federal government, and how Mossad have a long history of carrying out false flags (and getting away with it, with Jewish media assisting).
No, what they'll do is sell you the same lies that Bush masterminded 9/11 and that mysterious CIA men in black commandeered those planes, landed them, swapped planes, got the NORAD pilots to covertly shoot down FL93 and fire a missile into the Pentagon from a plane that hardly anyone saw (though they saw the Boeing). And Israelis weren't involved.
You aren't going to get a Jew making a truthful film about 9/11 or creating a truthful website about it (see Hoffman who calls those who talk about Israel's role liars who make up all of this evidence against the Jews because they're prejudiced against the Jews - it's the other way around - it's the truth that makes people anti-Jewish and prejudiced against them - it's called religious profiling out of a sense of self-preservation - so many conspiracies are carried out by Jews). They're carrying too much baggage, and the same with the liberals - that's why their efforts like trying to stop the wars in the ME through the Peace Movement are bound to fail. If they're not prepared to admit Jews run the country and have corrupted it, setting it up so that it serves the people of Israel and not the people of America, and that's why America's in two wars in the Middle East, they're never going to convince anyone else who doesn't share their mindset already of the rightness of their views. You can't stop something when you stick your head in the sand about the real cause. They'll always be out-argued by the neocons and shown to be the sissy whiny namby-pambys that they are.
It's going to take a lot more than the consequences of 9/11 to wake up America. The people in America are like the chicken who's hypnotized by the snake (the Jew). They're mesmerized and don't even think of making a getaway. They'll be swallowed up whole like the chicken.
It's going to take some real catastrophe for people to get out of their self-induced coma and it's not going to be pretty when it happens.
Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:26 am
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madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8221 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
Flight 93 Landed Safely in Cleveland
"It's public Record"
Delta Flight 1989 was confused with Flight 93. WCPO an affiliate of ABC retracted the story which came from a preliminary AP report. The logistics of plane swapping in this case is a bit "out there" isn't it?
There is no doubt there was massive Israeli/Zionist involvement in 9/11 as well as obviously other aspects of US foreign affairs etc. The fact still remains if you want to convince me that there was in fact a Boeing at the pentagon please show me some evidence for it. You sure can't see it in the "video" the pentagon released. You sure can't get 100% eyewitness testimony of the fact.
If you think the towers fell on their own simply due to impact and heat, that is on par with believing that Spud Webb can run Shaq over.
There are no doubt some issues that need to be addressed, but for the most part all this balleyhoo is going to go nowhere and it just further separates individuals into their own suspicious worlds or paranoia and second guessings.
Were there in fact missile attachments to the planes that hit the towers? Unlikely. This would qualify as one of the types of misinformation. Now if we want to assume it was purposely put there, we can do so. Either way, it doesn't make much difference.
"No steel structure has ever been brought to the ground due to fires." - This statement still holds true guys. Go back in the record books and find cases such as the Madrid Building etc or the one in Pennsylvania, and you find that the steel DOES become weakened and in fact in some of the cases some of the building breaks off or deteriorates to a point that enables parts of it to collapse. The fact is though, that in these cases, all of them were after the fires burnt...and burnt VIGOROUSLY for hours on end, if not days. This is a huge departure from 30 minutes of heat that we now know was not even that hot (considering we know firefighters were on those floors that were said to be so intense...as well as civilians).
Alan Watt says it best when he calls 9/11 a "must be." It was simply a critical part of an agenda set forth ages ago. We can argue about the minute details about it, or we can try and look at the important aspects such as "qui bono" or more importantly what did 9/11 allow that would not have been possible without it and where are we headed, and what can we as individuals do to better understand what is going on.
Whenever you have a "movement" you are going to have controversy. You are going to have people who see it one way or another, and then eventually you get branchings, and separations. Understand that and don't try so much to point fingers at everyone. The one fact that remains that will always remain is that the main reason why all this shit exists in the world is simply because the average person allows it to be so. The most effective force in the world is apathy. Yes another destructive force can be manipulation and deception, but if you have a logical head on your body and can think for yourself eventually you will find the truth. I know this because I have gone through this process myself. I am sure I will hold false opinions in the future about things and hopefully I will find the truth eventually. What I don't see any use doing is going overboard on the second guessing and conspiracy theories, rather letting the evidence point you to your opinions.
Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:18 pm
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madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8221 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
Quote:
The fact still remains if you want to convince me that there was in fact a Boeing at the pentagon please show me some evidence for it.
Again, this project is for debunking the nonsense. I'm not that into studying 9/11, but I do have concern over the disinformation being spread. Debus put forth a better theory than controlled demolitions, and if anyone else has stuff to add to what did happen so be it, but it's not what this project is supposed to be about. I suggest starting a new thread or continuing one.
That said, I'm not against the idea that it wasn't a Boeing. I'm against the nonsense about it. Most of the Pentagon stuff isn't even worth discussing. No one has sufficiently demonstrated it wasn't Boeing.
Quote:
You sure can't see it in the "video" the pentagon released.
That's typical security cameras for you. They typically aren't designed to catch high quality images at fast speeds. Video: 911 Case Study: Pentagon Flight 77 (CNN)
Quote:
You sure can't get 100% eyewitness testimony of the fact.
Of course not! When people see a car hit and run, many can't even get the color or make of the car right. 100% would be scary!
Quote:
If you think the towers fell on their own simply due to impact and heat, that is on par with believing that Spud Webb can run Shaq over.
Again, this thread isn't supposed to be about what I think happened it's about the nonsense. Can we get on topic?
Quote:
There are no doubt some issues that need to be addressed, but for the most part all this balleyhoo is going to go nowhere and it just further separates individuals into their own suspicious worlds or paranoia and second guessings.
Having people parroting things like "fire doesn't melt steel", "controlled demolitions" just isolates people as whack-jobs. Sorry if I don't want whack jobs representing 9/11 truth.
Quote:
"No steel structure has ever been brought to the ground due to fires." - This statement still holds true guys. Go back in the record books and find cases such as the Madrid Building etc or the one in Pennsylvania, and you find that the steel DOES become weakened and in fact in some of the cases some of the building breaks off or deteriorates to a point that enables parts of it to collapse.
Statements like this just serve the "whack job" label, and it's not the statement I contested.
1) It wasn't just fire: they were hit by large planes and suffered structural damage
2) No buildings were designed like the twin towers
3) Madrid did partially collapse and it was Concrete and Steel - Should hold up much better than just steel!
4) Overpass collapse
The whole argument is moot. There is nothing to objectively compare it to. Look at the design of the towers with the core and the rivets or whatever connecting the unusually large floors to the core and exterior walls.
For discussion on what possibly happened, we do have:
This is just my opinion but there are so many theories yet there is good chance we will never know what really happened. All you have to do is look at solid facts that this was planned long before by those in power in Israel and the US. Shady deals and details in the official story that certainly make no sense like WTC 7 and magical passports appearing after the site was destroyed should be more than enough evidence to know something was fishy. Then of course there is PNAC and their involvement.
Thats all the evidence you really need to convince people that are questioning this event. Some of the movies on this issue point this out but then they go through disinformation or speculations that make them look like the conspiracy nuts. How long are we going to argue about the details. Can't we stick to the big facts. We have so many other issues that need to be taken care of.
If your family and friends are interested in what occurred that day give them the facts but tell them to take the details in these vids with a grain of salt.
Ah what the hell do I know. Its just my opinion. Sorry for the rant. Continue arguing over stupid details.
Last edited by edisme on Fri Jun 08, 2007 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:04 pm
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8221 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
That's part of the point to this thread. Stick to facts, and don't parrot the nonsense as fact. If you're going to theorize or parrot a theory.. make it clear that that is what it is: a theory.
Whatever happened, 9\11 was engineered by those who hold power behind governments, finance organisations and military-arms dealers. Israel benefits, the war machine benefits, oil companies benefit, power-worshipping corrupt mother sexual intercourse benefit. War makes money, and if an enemy cannot be found...then it is MANUFACTURED. Terrorism and fear-mongering are merely things manufactured by those in power to 'sell' to the rest of the world as an agenda; they fund extremists, fund wars, sell arms, make money, sell the agenda on the media....and everybody buys it. 9\11 was a justification for the control of the Middle East and to prop up those bought-and-paid-for dictators that actually fall into line with the creditors that set them up. Saudi Arabia is another nation that is part of this whole evil cabal, as well as Britain, Israel, and Russia.
What was 9\11 about in the end? Power and money. It made shit happen, so it was meant to happen. It wasn't an attack....it was a business venture. It's important to see it in that context and part of the whole frame-work of the general nation-state neo-globalist lie....rather than an isolated event that needs explaining in every scientific detail. Who gives a sexual intercourse at the end of the day if the fire caused it to collapse or not? Those terrorists could've just been pawns in a game, working for the Saudi's, Israeli's, Americans, oligarchs, offshore Rothschild c*nts....in order to justify war, divide and rule, perpetuation of the Israeli 'beacon' of democracy in a more turbulent middle-east. The upheaval will allow new dictators and sub-governmental contracts set-up, inter-ethnic conflict fomented via divide-and-rule meaning that the power will always be away from the people in that region. Only those who create conflict will be able to buy the politcal agenda that runs the regions...the rest are just pawns in a game. And if they are genuine freedom fighters, they are merely loners in a sea of conformist bought-and-paid for sheep; whether they be 'moderate' or 'extremist'.
Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:21 pm
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8221 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
Apartment Complex Collapse Creates Rolling Dust Cloud
(Pyroclastic flow debunked)
Sat Jan 05, 2008 3:25 pm
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8221 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8221 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
Ok, the no-planers take the cake when it comes to nonsense.
Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:39 pm
alexclaton VIP
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 674 Location: Hell on earth
madthumbs wrote:
Ok, the no-planers take the cake when it comes to nonsense.
i wasnt there nor do i know anyone who was.... and its known that tv make make imaginary real..... think chris angel.... he hires ppl to pretend as tho what was being shown was real... why cant the same be done for that event?
if anyone here was there or know someone who witnessed it first hand then never mind... im just puting out more speculation as 75% of 911 stuff is just speculation....
Government Fake News - Biological & Chemical Attacks
Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:40 am
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8221 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
The videos are boring. Everything I've seen in the first two, I believe can be easily explained away aside from news stations sharing footage. For someone that seems familiar with video editing, they don't appear to be familiar with video compression (which produces artifacts / anomalies). I think the best evidence against the "no planers" is all the eye witnesses that actually saw them vs the lack of people who didn't and were there.
What is the very best evidence for "no planes"?
ps to everyone:
Try to keep the amount of embedded videos per page low especially in the non multimedia forums (use 1 video per post if you must). - People with older computers will have problems opening a thread with too many videos on a page. -thanks!
Best evidence? That depends on what you relate to. Some people saw "tv fakery" straight away, but frequently couldn't believe their eyes. Others didn't notice anything unnatural at all. Some find it weird that none of the pilots or co-pilots were qualified to fly such planes on that particular day. Others just shrug it off. And so on.
"September Clues" seems to be a popular presentation of tv fakery.
