Lunatic Anti-Zionists, Anti-Semites, and Pseudo Leftists

Posts: 19

A friend of mine sent me this, after reading a post by one of your contributors:

Let me say that I have not read Mr. Martin's book, nor do I care to. I would not read a book about how Muslims are responsible for Al Qaeda or other such rubish that confuses causation in such an obviously fraudulent way.

The United States has many serious problems. One is that it is leading the charge to promote global warming and environmental hazards. Another is that it backs immoral and wasteful wars. A third is the fact that African Americans and others are screwed over. The unfortunate alliance between Israel and the U.S. and their backing of wars in the Middle East is problematic. But, so too is Hizbollah's firing of rockets at Arab and Jewish civilians in Israel, the mass slaughter of Jews during World War II, and other evils. These do NOT justify Israeli policies. But, they do suggest historical reasons why Jews have a military and a state. The complex history of Israel, its colonialism, etc. on the one hand and its haven when few others existed (including the United States and other countries), suggests historical complexities. You'll notice that all those backing the liquidation of the Israeli state have no policy solutions for the 5 million or so Jews who live there. Those advocating a single state make a little more sense, but are utterly naive as to the prospects of its survival, e.g. with Hizbollah firing rockets at Israeli citizens, why would Jews trust a state that did not have a military to defend them.

I could go on and on about this. I fully appreciate the problems and structural character of Israel. Yet, Israel's enemies are also problematic...a problem many on the Left are oblivious of because they engage in selecting which groups are their favorite targets of violence.

There are many Jews who blindly support Israel and when attacked claim that they are anti-Semitic. Then there are
some on the Left or academics who have a wierd obsession with Jews and Israel which makes them oblivious to the larger structures that exist independently of social groups and states. For example, some researchers dig up dirt about Jews and Rabbis backing slavery like a certain Professor Martin who Madthumbs is apparently enamored of. Mr. Martin claims to be doing serious research and claims to be unfairly attacked by Jews, etc. Mr. Martin is a very strange character. I am sure he could dig up some facts about Jews who raped their wives and write a book about them. Or, he could write a book about Jews who beat their children and wrote about them. Or, he could write a book about passages in the Bible that are sexist and racist if he wanted to. He could also do the same for Christians, Muslims, and other faiths. Yet, he does not. If his point was that Jews were more instrumental in slavery, etc., I find that hard to fathom, given that Jews did not have their own state at the time in contrast to Spain, England, Holland, Portugal, etc. Also, there is a very serious methodological problem here. When a Jew beats his wife, does he do it BECAUSE he is Jewish? How about when a Jew backs slavery and writes something using the Bible to rationalize it. Could he be simply a bad Biblical scholar who is a racist? The underlying point is that a Jew can do something as a British or American citizen and be empowered to do it because of their alliance with certain classes and states that support a policy of slavery. Their Jewishness can be incidental. Throwing in a few passages from the bible, etc. is not enough to create evidence for the relevance of the Jewish variable.

Just think for a moment. I interpret the Bible to suggest that taking "an eye for an eye" is O.K. I then proceed, backed by my government, to start taking out people's eyes who cross me the wrong way. Then a researcher from a college in the U.S. writes a book about how Jews are responsible for blindness. This is the kind of idiotic crap that a minority of lunatic fringe people are eating up and posting on the internet. They are poorly educated pseudo intellectuals who should spend more time in a library than ditzing around with computers. They are not even on the Left, we don't want them or need them.

I seriously question the motives of any scholar who selectively would single out the slavery practices of Jews in general or Jews as Jews and isolate this from other practices. Such scholars suffer from a certain kind of dementia in their inability to frame terribly relevant or logical research questions and should probably have their PhDs taken away from them. Of course, if someone manages to publish such rubish then they might have the right to do so. Just as Jews who recognize this stuff as veiled anti-Semitism have the right to organize against it (independently of the merits of lunatic Israeli policies which have absolutely nothing to do with this).

Finally, I am puzzled about why people obsessed with Zionist as opposed to states backing highly imperialistic policies per se, bother to cite and dig up rubbish against Jews. Their psychology must be to use the evil doings of many Zionists to rationalize their unconscious hatred for Jews. This hatred stems from their inability to properly understand basic relationships and theories in social science. It is like the people who still hate Germans (as opposed to opposing bad faith in German society regarding its past) or those suspicious of Arabs (as opposed to fundamentalism), etc. etc.

Posts: 1334

If you mean by Jew a religion of Judaism, which it is

then it is actually Talmud which is full of hatred towards non-jews.

	Quote:
	best of the gentiles deserve to be killed

Israel has no constitution and is governed by Talmudic law - you can see that in action.

Posts: 140

id say that your friend dosent know what hes talking about... this is not a forum of slander. its a forum of educated research and debate. we could provide sources to back up the claims we make against israel and zionism. it seems as though the writer thinks we are picking of "jews". thats simply not the case. and if that person would take the time to look around and find out what were really about here, and most certainly learn some things whilst doing so, id take what they said into consideration...

Posts: 19

Let me try again with you (all).

What you wrote did not respond to anything that was said here (or my other posts which are easy enough to find).
Instead, you tried to pull out what is basically the defense that you are being critical of zionism.

First, I don't think if you criticize Israel, a state tied to war-like approaches, you are anti-Semetic or anti-Jewish.
It's just that people think that because some persons unfairly criticize them for being anti-Semites, that they are
some how innocent of the charge when it happens to be true.

This site is filled with pseudo-intellectual postings, e.g. about Jewish slave owners. The relevance of their being Jewish seems largely unsubstantiated and you can't prove to me why Jewish slave owners are any more relevant than the many Africans who participated in the slave trade. Or, what Jewish slave owners have to do with Zionism and Israel, which seems to be your point of defense.

Second, you basically support reductionistic positions. Even though Israel bears a disproportionate share of responsibility, the type of argumentation hear hipocritically says nothing about Hizbollah or Al Qaeda involvement in terrorism and deaths of civilians (at the very least it is under-emphasized). Instead, you come up with wacky theories that Israel was behind 9-11, which is probably a public relations smeer perpetuated by various Islamic fundamentalist groups who probably duped parts of the American media. The fraudulent and shabby nature of the arguments here are further underlined by trying to cite Fox news as a source. Some argue that Murdoch's Jewishness is relevant (a total absurdity) and other's use this same apparently biased source to argue that Israel was behind 9-11. Its kind of illogical. How does the Jewishness of antiwar opponents explain their motivations? This is not something you people are prepared to deal with because you are basically demogogues who dig up stuff that appears to ratify your biases and predispositions. You know nothing about basic social science methods or even radical theories about what creates conflicts or even sociological concepts. This is why you are into "conspiracies."

So, try to re-read what was written and stop using detours.

Posts: 8249

	Quote:
	Let me try again with you (all).

Us goys have thick skulls huh?

	Quote:
	This site is filled with pseudo-intellectual postings, e.g. about Jewish slave owners.

If we're cattle to you; you are conversing with cattle. Does that make sense? Judaism endorses and teaches slavery. Why instead of accepting the evil of your laws do you instead place blame on the people your religion has oppressed?

	Quote:
	Second, you basically support reductionistic positions. Even though Israel bears a disproportionate share of responsibility, the type of argumentation hear hipocritically says nothing about Hizbollah or Al Qaeda involvement in terrorism and deaths of civilians (at the very least it is under-emphasized).

Who is "you"? This is a forum; we all have our own perspective on things, and some people see things as false flag ops. You come here talking down to us, calling us hypocrites while your very own religion is ant-Semite. Who is the hypocrite?

	Quote:
	Instead, you come up with wacky theories that Israel was behind 9-11, which is probably a public relations smeer perpetuated by various Islamic fundamentalist groups who probably duped parts of the American media.

Our media is controlled by Jews. Even our alternative media is Jewish. ~80% of our supposed truth movement is Jewish. The only Islamic I know of here; I'm not even fond of. I'm against organized religion entirely. Judaism makes you your own enemy.

	Quote:
	The fraudulent and shabby nature of the arguments here are further underlined by trying to cite Fox news as a source.

I don't see you debunking anything.. just insults, talking down, etc. If we're cattle.. why bother talking to cattle? Are you loco

?

Posts: 1334

Josh please show us one piece of evidence linking Al Quaeda to 911.

There is lot of evidence linking Zionist officials to 911
-starting from dancing Israelis, landlord of the buildings, owners of security companies, owners of the airports and massive media blackout.

Now i think there must be still a lot of good people in Israel
- and for their own good they must leave that criminal country as soon as possible because Israel and Zionist controlled United States of America will NOT stop their agenda othewise!
This agenda is genocidal against Israeli people as well, - recent example is dropping DU in lebanon which will contaminate Israel.

Posts: 358

How stupid to post something that a friend sends you... you give yourslef away on your other posts!!!

If anyone needs to be educated its Josh... and he should try to go through the posts and videos before he makes a fool of himself... or maybe he is looking for attention...
If it becomes clear that he has no interest in reading the posts and links or watching any of the vids then it's clear that he has no respect for our opinions which he already shows... and that he has no interest in really knowing the truth.

Taking this into consideration we need to setup a vote-to-ban list of people who are here for the fun of it... and to waste our precious time!!!

And its obvious that Josh, is here to do this... I read all his posts and he has no wish to learn!!!

Thank You !!!

I'm very sad, that there are those who are dying and the right to live is denied to them and here we have to sit and listen to this Shucking-Fit!!!

Last edited by Gunther on Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total

Posts: 8249

I know he's coming off as arrogant, but lets please show him more respect and not go to that level please. I think we should count ourselves lucky that someone who is Jewish is semi-respectfully engaging us in conversation. Take it as an opportunity to learn; not an opportunity to degrade ourselves.

Any polls or movements towards banning people will be locked and disregarded. Movements like that show contempt for administration and just create shit stirring.

Last edited by madthumbs on Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total

Posts: 358

What respect does he show to our research and discussion by not going through them... and getting an educated view on life...

I'm trying to awaken people, I do my research on that which is obvious... My family complains I don't spend enuff time with them and he feels he has the right to leave piles of shit on our hard work and the time we spend on research!!!

What respect does he show???

Lazy Bugger... I say FVCK Him!!!

Posts: 19

Dear Mad Thumbs,

"Us goys have thick skulls huh?"

This is a very interesting remark. You need me as a Jew to degrade you with an anti-gentile slur, but I have not engaged in that. By "you all," I meant the tendencies on this list. There is hardly a social science concept of a slur for that sub sub group.

"while your very own religion is ant-Semite."

I don't think that any serious person would call the Jewish religion anti-Semetic. In fact, Muslims and Jews got along very well for hundreds of years in Spain before the Christian church launched various pogroms, and the Spanish Inquistion accelerated this kind of disaster. What are you talking about and how can you engage in such a vast reductionistic generalization about a world religion and hope to be taken seriously by anyone outside of a small fringe group?

"Our media is controlled by Jews. Even our alternative media is Jewish. ~80% of our supposed truth movement is Jewish. The only Islamic I know of here; I'm not even fond of. I'm against organized religion entirely. Judaism makes you your own enemy."

Dear Mad Thumbs, this is another anti-Semetic canard that you engage in. No, our media is controlled by CAPITALISTS.
Jews with a Left viewpoint don't have access to the capitalist media. Where does the 80% figure come from? Is that something you made up? The Leftist media is controlled by either foundations or people who buy the media. What publications are controlled by Jews and when is their Jewishness relevant? Do you have any social science understanding of the concepts: "class," "capitalist control," "bureacratic interest," "history of ideas," "ideological consensus," "hegemonic control," "discourse," etc. etc.?

"I don't see you debunking anything.. just insults, talking down, etc. If we're cattle.. why bother talking to cattle? Are you :loco: ?[/quote]"

I am engaged in insults and you call me "loco" with a picture no less. How do you manage that in the same sentence?
You must be a little desperate.

Posts: 19

"Now i think there must be still a lot of good people in Israel
- and for their own good they must leave that criminal country as soon as possible because Israel and Zionist controlled United States of America will NOT stop their agenda othewise!"

Dear Mr. Friedmann,

This position is not very serious as I am sure you might realize, but on second thought don't. Do you think the Israelis would be welcome in Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran? If they would not be welcome in these countries, some of which they ALREADY LEFT, then what does that do to your argument?

Might they move to the U.S.? That is already "zionist controlled" by your logic. Therefore, if they came to the U.S. they would only enforce this control. Don't misunderstand me, the idea that Israel is controlled by Zionists is wrong and misguided. The Bush Administration supports Israel as part of a Christian fundamentalist agenda that is key to their base and because they support military solutions everywhere. The few Jews in key positions are an insignificant correlation. Their Jewishness is irrelevant because their policies hurt Jews everywhere and because Jewish ideology is not uniform.

I still don't understand how the many posters on this list, even if they don't think exactly alike, get away with thinking that all Jews think alike or that their Jewish background makes them act or think in the same way. That is basically a racist idea that is toyed with on this forum that is utterly despicable yet condoned. It does not help that one of the moderators degrades the Jewish religion based on some quotations taken out of context about slavery and god knows what else.

Regards, JDM

Posts: 819

well al qaida doesn't exist.

you think we're stupid?

and hezbollah probably saved lebanon from worse.

.. for now.

Posts: 140

we are not racists. we do not assume all jews think alike. we know better than that.

Posts: 819

Quote:

Even though Israel bears a disproportionate share of responsibility,
the type of argumentation hear hipocritically says nothing
about Hizbollah or Al Qaeda involvement in terrorism and deaths of civilians
(at the very least it is under-emphasized).

Instead, you come up with wacky theories
that Israel was behind 9-11,
which is probably a public relations smeer perpetuated by various Islamic fundamentalist groups
who probably duped parts of the American media.

The fraudulent and shabby nature of the arguments here
are further underlined by trying to cite Fox news as a source.
Some argue that Murdoch's Jewishness is relevant (a total absurdity)
and other's use this same apparently biased source to argue that Israel was behind 9-11.

Its kind of illogical.
How does the Jewishness of antiwar opponents explain their motivations?
This is not something you people are prepared to deal with because you are basically demogogues
who dig up stuff that appears to ratify your biases and predispositions.
You know nothing about basic social science methods
or even radical theories about what creates conflicts or even sociological concepts.
This is why you are into "conspiracies."

ba ha ha ha.

baaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha.

baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha.

Posts: 21

"ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, UPN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Daily News, Time Magazine, Newsweek, People Magazine, US News and World Report and countless other media and Hollywood companies all have either a Zionist CEO, or a Zionist News President, or are owned by a media conglomerate which has a Zionist CEO. Have you ever noticed how Hollywood movies always seem to portray Germans and Arabs as a bigoted fanatics or terrorists? Now you know why!"

"AIPAC (the Israeli lobbying organization), and the ADL are the most feared political pressure groups in Washington DC. Also carrying heavy political clout are well funded and well organized Zionist groups such as JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs), ZOA (Zionist Organization of America), and AJC (American Jewish Congress.) By their own admission, these groups are capable of unseating Congressmen and Senators that do not carry out their requests. The majority of Congressmen from both political parties receive large donations from AIPAC."

Zionists also dominate finance Greenspan, Soros, Rothschild, Goldman, Sachs, Schwab, Warburg, Lazard, Seiff, Kuhn, Loeb, Lehman, ect.

ZIONIST POWER STRUCTURE IN AMERICA